Discussions up to18th July 2017

Success story
20yrs female pt wt39kgs.c/o severe white thick discharge since 3yrs , severe back pain with regular m.c and stomach ache during periods.tiredness. becaz of that always sleeping at home.not going to college properly. 3months she took treatment now no white discharge, no tiredness, no back pain. Used dhanwantaram kashayam,gandharwahasta kashayam,lodhrasavam,pushyanuga choorna, kuberaksha vati 1tab per day.Regular to college .to day pt mother saying thanks to me .

Dr.Rekha Hegde:
Regarding  Pittashmari , guruji Venugopal rao posted long before  one Ekamulika prayoga- Kokilaksha kshara. Good results as it does ksharana but pitta rakta shamaka. Ghrita kalpana of specific dravya which acts on pittashaya .liver also beneficial I think

As Vd Rajyalakshmi, and Vd vinaya has said that should be followed in general. What I do in my practice is ask the parents or elders in their house what they will do as a custom in their family, if there is any viruddahara or virudda kriya then advise not to do that in present situation. I will first advice what not to do i. e., head bath during first three days of Mc, over exhaustion, stale, refrigerated food, untimely food, over eating, traveling, strenuous work etc., advise, fresh food which are mootralas as well as anulomana food what ever available in that season. Advise Suji preparations like ksheera etc., preparations from plantain rinf

Plantain plant rind (baale dindu in kannada) on fourth day and fifth day give haridra kalka in empty stomach so that excess bleeding can be avoided. If low back or abdominal pain is there then jeera and pepper (2gms of jeera and one or two pepper seeds fried, powdered and make kashaya decant it and add ghee to it and drink, from fifth day till next Mc abyanga with til oil or if they are very lean then shatavari Taila. Either ashokarista, lodra kashaya or lodrasava depending on her prakruthi so that vaata pitta anulomana will be proper. If she has any other complaints treat accordingly so that chances of cure are more during that time.

Dr.pradp Noori:
Next Wednesday AAA 
2nd .
Astanga hridayam Sutrasthana 11 chapter continued. Please participate in the discussion.

Dr.nageswr Gokul:

Please share treatment for hairline fracture of coccyx bone

Dr.pradp Noori:
Hadjod  1gm
Vatagajankush ras 750 mg
Lakshadi guggulu 1500mg
Divided in three doses after food with milk or tilapisti. Ext
Muruvenna and chandanbalalakshadi tailam for external application

Murivenna dhara or Pichu..
Balaswagandha taila matra basthi

Lakshadhi guggulu

.s.s Sir:
Rost Wheat, than grind, & make powder. Add Ghee &  Sharkara,  make Halwa,  and give in morning.
lakshadi Guggulu  3-3 tab tid.

Discussions on 13th July 2017

Vinaya Ballakur:
On gall bladder stones please share your valuable inputs and clinical experiences friends.

We have direct references on pittashmari in texts so theoretical background is not a problem.

What is important is , are we able to apply the same and get successful results in practice?
If so up to what size calculus can we take up?

The other day, I had a patient aged 70 years enquiring about Ayurvedic treatment for her 29mm size single gall stone.
She had two episodes of severe pain in the abdomen but wanted to avoid surgery that was advised.
Her general parameters were OK.
I had absolutely no second thoughts over asking her to go for surgery soon.


Pt age 35yrs..
Gallbladder stone..8mm..

No symptoms..

I given
Punarnavasavam amrutaristam mix
Varunadhi kashayam
Arogyavardhini vati

Review after 15 days..

I will update after 15days..

Vinaya Ballakur:
Discussion on gall stone does not mean a conclusion on hypothyroidism. Please share your experiences as and when you can spare time friends.

Swathi Tumma:
Can i have the vaidhyas suggestions regarding what type of food should be given to a girl at menarche by which we can avoid many problems in her future

Vinaya Ballakur:
Susruta suggests paneeya ksharam in pittashmari. I gave yavakshara with arogyavardhani to a patient once but  stone size did not decrease, although, digestion and general condition improved. pain also decresed. Should I have added Hazrul yahood bhasma also?

Just like mutrashmari chikitsa.. except arogyavardhini

Vinaya Ballakur:
For prevention of mutrashmari I generally suggest regular intake of lemon.
Is it helpful in pittashmari also?
Lemon is amla padartha.
Which will be better ?
Kshara or amla.
Also ksharas cannot be used for long?
How long to use it?

As gall stones are formed due to concentration and stagnation of bile juice which is cholesterol based, can we achieve better results by using medopachan dravyas

Ksharas, Arogyavardhani, varunadi kashayam etc. are helpful for ksharana, lekhana and sarana of bile , no doubt

Will adding guggulu help?

I request subject experts and MD scholars to give their inputs. Many young Vaidyas eager to practice authentic Ayurveda are waiting for a little guidance.

Medho hara vidanga etc

Dr.pradp Noori:
There is diffrence between mootrashamarii is Tha sthana on is vatashana and Pittashmari is pitta sthana .both are kapha dried(kapha vata)

Pittashmari is atisnigdha sthira
Mootrashamari is atirooksha sthira?

Sandeep Kamnor:
These are the reports of a patient suffering from cirrhosis of the liver with carcinoma, ascites and portal hypertension. Doctors please say your suggestions in the form of prescription

Dr.pradp Noori:
Gomutra haritaki 1gm +
Aviltoladi(kshara)/choona 250mg with anupanam
Patolakaturohiyadi kashayam 15 ml before food. For forty days

Vinaya Ballakur:
You can add Abhraka bhasma shataputi 100 mg bd to Vd. Pradeepji' s prescription.

Grade 3 varices in oesophagus.
Give yashti kshir pak for rakta pitta shaman.

Multiple metastases in lungs. Patient age 71. Explain the asadhya nature of illness to family and take it up. Treatment can be palliative type only.

Kashaiah Vasam:
Good evening gurus,seniors and friends please share whate is the line of treatment  of brain strock (pakshaghata/paralysis) difference between bleeding condition/haemorrhage and clots/infarct stage.

Dr.pradp Noori:
Bleeding condition of Pakshaghata is V p condition, paka,Sroto vaigunya 
Lot is vatashamaka and pittashamaka snigdha slight ushna treatment

And dhatukshaya chikitsa needed ie better rasayana also needed. Bvc, manjista  Soothasekhar ras, brahmi rasayan, Mahavatavidhwansa ras VP SHAMANA like raktapitta

2. Type  Clot infarction is an Obstructive disorder. Vata kapha treatment. Lekhana ushna treatment required.
Yogendra ras Rasraj ras punarnava varna di kashayam
Bhallataki Lasuna ect

Both the treatments are vata treatment but the anubhanda doshas are diffrent and doshavikalpa is diffrent so diffrent treatment
My understanding

Vinaya Ballakur:
Vacha can be given in 2. Type for dissolving clots

.s.s Sir:
1. Loknath ras + Yakrit Pippali in morning with Tambool Swaras..
2. Mrigank Ras +Pippali +Marich  with ChatushKuvalaya Ghritam or Pancha Gavya Ghritam in Evening..

Vinaya Ballakur:
vacha rubbed over stone 4-5 times with water yields a very small quantity of paste . It is mixed with honey and applied over tongue in clot infarctions repeatedly but dosage should be taken care of as excess vacha can lead to vomiting.
Its our late Guruji Sripathi Rao's prescription in emergencies.

I too suggest it to patients who have developed clots from haemorrhages

Sandeep Kamnor:
In children aged Three years can we prescribe Arogyavardhini vati, Gandhaka Rasayana and kaishora guggulu

Dr.nageswr Gokul:
We can safely use
Kaishora guggulu,
Gandham rasayanam
In children

Sandeep Kamnor:
Sir dosage in 3 years of age

Dr.nageswr Gokul:
1/4 of adult dose

Discussions on 12th July 2017

Vinaya Ballakur:
Not only stress, I feel thyroid problems which are in epidemic proportions are the result of dushi  visha. Chlorinated water, fluorine in water, pesticides, unnecessary iodine in salt, pollution. That is why we find vyadhi Sankara.

Rishi Vashishth:
Excess iron supplementation (in pregnancy) is a cause of hypothyroidism too

Vinaya Ballakur:
Varadi kashayam
Ingredients , Vara or triphala remove toxins,
Chitraka does agni dipti and relieves srotodushti,
loha patra  improves metabolism, is lekhana, medohara and shothahara , so helps in symptomatic relief.

Getting results with this. Adding kanchanar guggulu because of its effectivity in granthi and thyroid gland is granthi too.

Rishi Vashishth:
There is a phenomenon noted ie iodine induced hypothyroidism, we have iodised the salt of the whole nation without considering this particular repercussion. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3976240/

Vinaya Ballakur:
Just an aside
The shape of kanchanar leaf and thyroid gland is butterfly like.

In enlarged thyroid this has a definite role

Ayaskriti contains asanadi gana drugs, loha patra, madhu which are anti diabetic, anti obesity .
Improves metabolism, in hypothyroidism associated with diabetes and anemia its effective. Helps reduce the dosage of hormone if patient is dependant on it.

Dr.pradp Noori:
Dr Nori:
Uncomplicating  ayurveda :

Increased wt ● K vriddhi pittakshaya

Dullness ●k vriddhi vatakshaya

Pcos delayed mc kaphavriddhi obstruction.

Ushna kamitwa  kapha vriddhi pitta kshaya

Pandu kapha vriddhi pitta kshaya

Start believing that hypothyroid is a treatable condition altered agni kaphavriddhi it may be complicated chronic to vatavyadhi .
Drugs that correct agni and kaphahara can be used
Ajmodadi choorna
Shadharana choorna
Narayana choorna
Vaishwanar choorna
Antra kuthar ras
Kuberaksha vati
Medhoharvidangadi loh
Vidangadi loh .

Agnideepana Kapha hara pachana .
Location :whole body
This is my view

Vinaya Ballakur:
Vikruta kapha is similar to ama visha and Prakrit kapha is similar to ojas

Dr.pradp Noori:
When the kapha /agnimandhya of dhatu
In rasa dhatu are increased only symptom is slight wt gain with weakness.
Rakta is effected sheeta asahishnita pandu are symptoms ect
Mamsa is effected pcos cramps
Medho is effected wt increase ati sweda ,alasya.
Asti in very chronic and untreated will effect in early osteopenia .
Majja sukra later toximia and loss of libido ect with ojokshaya

If you see hyper thyroid  condition it is vatavriddhi /pittavriddh/kapha kshya
Shosha hyperactive weight reduction .
I think please correct if wrong

Erase all beliefs if you think hypothyroidism is not treatable with ayurveda .
Gandamalakhandan ras
Kravyadi ras
Arshakuthara ras
Bhallataki vati
Ect are to be clinically studied .
This belief was there with all the great scientists who invented new medicines successful for many condition .
Medicine for malaria,TB,typhoid and may new medicine wouldn't be there.

Geetha Rani:
Dhanyavada to all vaidyas. Of the above medicines which are safe during pregnancy? Can they be a total replacement for allopathic medicines?

Vinaya Ballakur:
If you look at Varadi kashayam  ingredients, it should be safe in pregnancy.

Guggulu preparations not safe.

Geetha Rani:
Thank you very much ma'am. All these days I never treated any hypothyroid case during pregnancy with at med. But definitely  found Nadia shuddhi pranayama, bhramari pranayama and yoga relaxation very beneficial in such cases

Dr Sridevi C:
Dear Vaidyas, I would like you all to help me with my mother's back problems.
Age 74yrs. Known diabetic since 15years. Known hypertensive since 10 years. Doesn't take any medicine for Diabetes. On strict diet control and takes karavellaka kashaya for Diabetes. But on allopathic medication for Hypertension. Sorry can't remember the medicine name for hypertension.
She has been having back ache since 2 years. Aggravates on sleeping. She cannot sleep at night due to pain. So starts walking. Feels better.  I had got her matra basti 2yrs back with Mahanarayana taila from my friends at Mangaluru. She got 95% relief. Stiffness of back reduced. She could easily get up from squatting position. So she went back to Hyderabad. Recently she started getting same complaints. I got her treated at my hospital at Moodbidri. This time she was treated with
1. Sthanika parisheka right knee and below with Pinda taila
2. Upnaha with
       Jadamansyadi choorna.          +     Godhuma+Pinda taila +
        Saindhava +
        Dashamoola quatha
3. Matra basti with Guggulu Tiktaka Kashaya
4. Trayodashanga Guggulu.

She completed 7 days treatment.
But night sleep still disturbed due to pain in lumbosacral region and pain from knee downward in right leg.
Now Trayodashanga Guggulu stopped and Gandha taila started since one week. She has improved a lot after taking Gandha taila. But still complains of stiffness of lumbosacral region.
I would be grateful if you could suggest something which will release stiffness of back. She is returning to Hyderabad on 13th of this month.

Karavellaka may be causing severe vata prakopa in her. Though blood sugar levels are under control other Vataja problems may aggravate by intake of Karavellaka regularly. First stop that and give any brumhana mehahara compositions like vasantha kusumakara etc so that vata shoola shamana happens simultaneously.

Sahacharadhi kashayam tablet

External sahacharadhi and murivenna mix
Sahacharadhi matra vasti for 7 days

Hard bed
Soft chappals
Avoid all fry items
Sea food
Avoid front bending

Discussions on 11th july

Vinaya Ballakur:
In my clinical side...I am facing some problems to treat following disorders in ayurveda....

Gallbladder stones and
Thyroid abnormality

Please discuss above 2 disorders


For hypothyroidism
Kanchanar guggulu and Varadi , Varunadi kashayas  are helpful if condition is detected early. Along with yoga exercises can be reversed in some cases.

For hyperthyroidism, Narasimha rasayan, ashwagangha lehyam, Brahma rasayan am etc. work

A proper discussion will be very useful to all.

We can consider listing common symptoms of hypothyroidism, like weight gain, fluid retention, cold intolerance, hairfall, shukra and artava vikrutis and maybe analyse the doshas involved, dushyas affected, nidana, samprapti in Ayurvedic lines and analyse how Ayurvedic treatment can be planned.

Kompelli Vasudha:
In hypo thyroidism we can also give Hamsa pada kashayam (kotakkal medicine) and godanti bhasma.

Dr.pradp Noori:
Hypothyroidism is pitta vishiyated and kaphavriddhi

I think Tridoshas are effected...

Thyroid can be taken as vyadhi Sankara...

Agni vaishyamya
Sukra dusti..arthava dusti
Ati sweda..

Main ..Agni
As well as... samprapthi starts from rasa dathu..
Vitiation of dosa..first pitta...kapha...vaata..

Kanchanara guggulu ...varunadhi kashayam...yes ..it's useful..

But in anotomical thyroid abnormality only kanchanara varuna very effective...

What about hormonal imbalance(physiological) treatment in ayurveda???

Thyroid gland is normal...no abnormality...

But hormones Wise... abnormality is der...how can we treatment in Ayurveda???

Ayurveda always telling...if u treat root cause.. disease will subside..it means not symptomatic treatment..

But in thyroid problem we know..root cause is hormonal imbalance...

How to treat hormonal imbalance in Ayurveda???

Please discuss and post valuable suggestions...

Geetha Rani:
Most of the hypothyroid cases which I have come across is in females with mc imbalances, diagnosed during pregnancy first trimester blood test and on allopathic treatment. That time they are worried about pregnancy complications and do not want to take any risk and are on allopathic treatment and later cannot withdraw allopathic medicines but still suffer from hypothyroid symptoms esp related to mc and anxiety issues. Please discuss on this topic

Swathi Tumma:
Yes mam almost all the patients come to us only after starting allopathic medicine
So how to deal them and specially in infertility treatment how to maintaine the harmonal balance by ayurveda
Please enlighten us on this 🙏

Kompelli Vasudha:
If thyroid is anatomically normal but when TSH is raised

I mean in most hypothyroid cases the causitive factor is stress ,. Stress harmones constantly hit the thyroid gland and its functioning is slowed down so the kashayams like varadi(trip hala) varanadhi and hamsapadhadhi will remove these toxins or stress harmones from blood so automatically it's functioning will improve.

And also iam using godanti bhasma
Gorochanadhi tablets
Dhan want ram (101) drops( taken in nostrils ,i mean nasya karma ) to treat hypothyroidism. Most of the cases are responding successfully.

Bramari pranayama  is most imp exercise to correct thyroid functioning.

Discussions on 9th July 2017

Rishi Vashishth:
A 44 yr old male, with complaint of vertigo, got an MRi of brain done, report suggests heterogeneously enhancing soft tissue lesion arising in relation to anterior pituitary- likely to be pituitary adenoma. In appearance the hands and face of the patient seem to have broadened. Serum growth hormone level has risen  13.071 H Ng/ml (normal- 0.003-0.971), in thyroid profile FT4 24.53 H pmol/l 12-22 rest is within normal limits. Sleep disturbed. Bowel bladder appetite- normal. Doctors at DMC, Ludhiana have refused to operate. What can be given?

Dr Kaveti Rajyalakshmi:
Dr Kaveti Rajyalakshmi:
Sir Impcops Dhatree loha 2bd 6am&6pm. Anupana dadima twak kashaya+ Sarkar's. Advice her to stop taking papaya, pineapple, dadhi and takra.

Ask raktapitta nidana. If present treat on the lines of raktapitta

Bharat Divate:
Vasa svarasa.....Can be administered ... Significant improvement can be expected

Motamarry Harika:
Doorvaswarasam,+jerra powder 15ml twice
Kushmanda swaras 10ml twice
Amystop g tid

Vinaya Ballakur:
Gist of discussions on Applied Ayurveda from Ashtanga Hridaya Sutra sthana 11 th chapter, held on 5 th July 2017 at Rasa shala. ( cont'd.)

Shloka 4 on prakrita kapha

श्लेष्मा स्धिरत्वं
Shleshma is for stability

Applied aspects - Stability is possible due to healthy growth and regeneration of tissues.
When kapha is vikruta this aspect is affected.
A child is in kapha kala of life.
A seven or eight year old kid who chronically presents with running nose or tonsillitis or similar kapha vikruti also frequently is seen to have a slow or stunted growth.
Unless kapha vikruti  is treated, growth and stability cannot be restored.

Theory - स्निग्धत्वं - lubrication

Applied aspects - The lubrication of the entire body is dependant on kapha.
Look for complaints of rukshatva described by patient especially of the five kapha subtypes. Supporting kapha must always be accompanied with protection of agni.
If we take into consideration , the snehas, ghritham and taila
tila taila  is vatashamak, kapha shamak, and pitta vardhak.
So it can be used by obese people.
Ghee is pitta shamak, vata shamak, and kaphakara. So it has more properties of snigdhatvam.

Theory - संधिबंध - compactness of joints

Applied aspects - Sandhibandha  is the reason for posture, capacity to work.
A good example to understand this aspect of kapha is from the relationship between vertebrae and inter vertebral discs.
Disc degeneration is kapha kshaya and that leads to vata vriddhi.
So while we treat postural and degenerative diseases as vata vikrutis due to the complaints of pain, stiffness etc. we must remember that the nidana is actually kapha kshaya which if treated gives lasting relief.

Theory -
श्लेष्मा - क्षमा
Kshama literally is forgiveness

Applied aspects - In treatment it means capacity to withstand both physically and mentally.
Physical kshama is therefore , resilience, tolerance, resistance . When does a person require these qualities?
Ans. In adversities.
Whatever causes hardship to the body, change of seasons , pollution, germs, stress and strain etc. can make a person vulnerable to diseases. It is prakrita kapha that gives resistance power.
When this power becomes low it is kapha correction that needs to be attempted of, course bearing in mind the agni.

Psychologically also, kshama or forgiveness or mental resilience or letting go of bad experiences can be affected if kapha is under vikruta condition. So in such cases kapha correction and pacification of vata and pitta is helpful.

The summary is Ayurveda is uncomplicated. We only need to have a proper understanding of the prakrita conditions of the doshas to understand their manifestation in pathology or vikruti.

Patients that come to us, rarely come with clear cut symptoms.
Many times we find juxtaposition of two or more diseases in a person. Let us not worry about knowing the name of the disease. Understanding dosha  manifestation, dushyas involved, prakriti, kala desha  etc. we can successfully treat all conditions.
Charaka also said, a physician need not be ashamed about not knowing the name of every disease. It is just not possible. But when doshas are brought into equilibrium the disease is taken care of.

Question time friends.

Why is pippali which is ushna and teekshna useful in amlapitta?

Geetha Rani:
Because pippali is madhura vipaka. In alma pitta drava roopi pitta vruddhi is there. Ushna guna of pippali helps in decreasing dravata. Teekshna???

Rishi Vashishth:
First we need to understand Amla pitta and pippli individually, site of the disease is grahani or adha amashaya, in which the amlatva of pitta is deranged. Pitta has both Amla and katu guna, but in Amla pitta amlatva has increased ,Amla pitta might be urdhvaga or adhoga, or it has been said it may be vatanubandh or kapha anubandha.... When kapha anubandha is there...the amlatva is effecting above the grahani i.e urdhva amashaya (site of kapha) also, and when vata anubandha is there it is effecting below the grahani ie pakvashaya also.... Which is y in urdhva Amla pitta virechana is indicated and in adhoga Amla pitta vamana is indicated..... Pippli is  madhur vipaka( no presence of amlatva) and at karma level pippli is vamanopaga( not vamaka) and mild laxative in nature....(laxatives are indicated in urdhva Amla  pitta as i mentioned before)so it seems it is at the karma level, and not due to its doshic action

In my clinical side...I am facing some problems to treat following disorders in ayurveda....

Gallbladder stones and
Thyroid abnormality

Please discuss above 2 disorders


.s.s Sir:
Pippali is not Ushna virya Vinaya ji

Vinaya Ballakur:
क्षमा property of shleshma is related with व्याधिक्षमत्व

Mamata Bhagwat:
Very well explained Vd Rishi Vashisht sir,🙏
Just wanted to make a small correction.
Urdhwaga amlapitta- Vamana
Adhoga - virechana

Shodhana through opposite route is principle in Raktapitta, not in amlapitta. 🙏🙏

Vinaya Ballakur:
Pippali has katu rasa but madhura vipaka and also snigdha guna.
So it supports sasneha agni. As Sharmaji pointed out it is anushna.

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